Journals of the Senate
52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 45
Thursday, March 27, 2003
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, *Banks, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, *Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, *Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, *Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, *Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk
PRAYERS
SPEAKER'S STATEMENT
Yesterday afternoon before proceeding to Orders of the Day, Senator LaPierre rose to ask if he could correct the record of Senate Debates, our Hansard, with respect to a statement that was attributed to him during Senators' Statements on Tuesday, March 25. He explained that the record on page 1002 should read "So did the Americans.''
Following the normal practice of the Senate, I asked the Senate if leave was granted to allow this correction to be made. Leave was denied. At that point Senator Robichaud rose to explain that Senator LaPierre had the right to request that Hansard be corrected so that it would faithfully reflect what was said. Other Senators then rose to speak. The question that emerged from these exchanges was whether the request was to correct Hansard or to change it. This situation was summarized in the remarks of Senator Cools. As the Senator said: "The substance of the issue is the question of correcting a mistake versus the phenomenon of altering the record. It seems to me that if a senator has made a mistake, or the reporters genuinely made a mistake as they took the record, it should be corrected without any fuss.'' The Senator then proposed, as did others, that it would be a reasonable thing to listen to the tapes to determine if the record is being corrected or altered.
I have taken the opportunity to listen to the tape. In fact, I listened to it very carefully several times. I must frankly admit that it is not easy for me to determine with any certainty what was said in the interventions by Senator LaPierre, and I do not have the means to enhance the recording to make a more definitive determination. Off-mike comments are not always clearly picked up. However, it is my assessment that Senator LaPierre did probably say "So did the Americans''. At the same time, in reaching this conclusion, I do not wish to suggest in any way that the reporters behaved improperly in carrying out their work. Faced with these facts, it seems only right to accept the word of Senator LaPierre that in making this request, the Senator is seeking only to correct Hansard, not to change to it. Based on the precedents that I have reviewed, this kind of request, as Senator Cools said, is usually done without any fuss. There is a request and the Senate approves it. This is our practice.
Therefore, I will ask again, Honourable Senators, is there leave to correct the record of Hansard as was requested by Senator LaPierre? [Leave was granted.]
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Kolber, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, presented its Ninth Report (Bill C-3, An Act to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act) without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Comeau presented the following:
THURSDAY, March 27, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans has the honour to present its
THIRD REPORT
On November 6, 2002, your Committee was authorized by the Senate to examine and report from time to time upon the matters relating to straddling stocks and to fish habitat. This is the first report of your Committee under this Order of Reference.
On March 17, 2003, the Newfoundland and Labrador All-Party Committee on the 2J3KL and 3Pn4RS Cod Fisheries made public a Position Statement titled Stability, Sustainability and Prosperity: Charting a Future for Northern and Gulf Cod Stocks. That day, the All-Party Committee briefed members of your Committee on its Position Statement. On March 25, 2003, your Committee heard further testimony from the Government of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. As a result of these meetings, your Committee endorses the general principles of the Position Statement of the All-Party Committee.
Because stocks of northern (2J3KL) and Gulf (3Pn4RS) cod have been critical components of the modern fishery of Newfoundland and Labrador, your Committee is of the view that a closure of those two fisheries would create economic uncertainty and cast a shadow over the future of the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery.
Comprised of representatives of all political parties in the House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, members of the House of Commons and all six of the Province's Senators, the All-Party Committee was able to form a unanimous position on the actions necessary to aid the recovery of northern and Gulf cod stocks.
Lastly, your Committee notes that assessments indicate that the northern cod stock is at its lowest level in recorded history, and that assessments of other species of Atlantic groundfish show that they continue to be at, or very near, historically low levels.
Your Committee therefore recommends that the Government of Canada act immediately to implement a multi-faceted plan to rebuild the northern and Gulf cod stocks based on the All-Party Committee's Action Plan.
Your Committee further recommends that, in accordance with Point 4 of the Action Plan, the Government of Canada establish a Prime Minister's Task Force on the Atlantic Ground Fishery to identify the reasons why Atlantic groundfish stocks are not recovering, and to present solutions to ensure stock recovery and conservation.
Respectfully submitted,
GERALD J. COMEAU
Chair
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-29, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2003.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended
(a) in clause 2, on page 1,
(i) by replacing lines19 to 21 with the following:
"exceeding in the whole one billion, eight hundred and sixty-two million, six hundred and fifteen thousand, three hundred and thirty-four dollars towards'', and
(ii) by replacing line 29, with the following:
"Act....................................$1,862,615,334.00''; and
(b) in Schedule 1,
(i) on page 4, in the first line following the heading "SCHEDULE 1'', by replacing "$1,882,904,747'' with "$1,823,457,377'',
(ii) on page 16, under "JUSTICE — DEPARTMENT'',
(A) by replacing the amount "68,457,029'' opposite Vote No. 1b with "17,868,029'',
(B) by replacing the amount "9,048,840'' opposite Vote No. 5b with "190,470'', and
(C) by replacing the total "77,505,869'' with "18,058,499'', and
(iii) on page 24, in the last line, under the column entitled "Total ($)'', by replacing "1,882,904,747'' with "1,823,457,377''.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on division.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, for the third reading of Bill C-29.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed on division.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill.
Third reading of Bill C-30, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2004.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cordy, that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed, on division.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill.
__________________________________________________________
The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that a communication had been received from the Secretary to the Governor General.
The Communication was then read by the Honourable the Speaker as follows:
RIDEAU HALL
March 27, 2003
Mr. Speaker:
I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Louise Arbour, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in her capacity as Deputy of the Governor General, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 27th day of March, 2003, at 5:00 p.m. for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain bills.
Yours sincerely,
Barbara Uteck
Secretary to the Governor General
The Honourable
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa
Bills
Orders No. 3 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill S-17, An Act respecting the Canadian International Development Agency, to provide in particular for its continuation, governance, administration and accountability.
The Honourable Senator Bolduc moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 3 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill S-11, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act (promotion of English and French).
The Honourable Senator Gauthier moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Morin, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Gauthier moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Morin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Consideration of the Eighth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce (budget—study on the financial system) presented in the Senate on March 25, 2003.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that the Report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the consideration of the Fourth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence (study on the proposal of the Valiants Group) tabled in the Senate on December 12, 2002.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that further debate on the consideration of the Report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 5 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
__________________________________________________________
Pursuant to Rule 135(8), the proceedings were interrupted to resume after Royal Assent.
ROYAL ASSENT
The Senate adjourned during pleasure to await the arrival of the Honourable the Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General.
After awhile, the Honourable Louise Arbour, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in her capacity as Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General, having come and being seated at the foot of the Throne—
The Honourable the Speaker commanded the Usher of the Black Rod to proceed to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that:—
"It is the desire of the Honourable the Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General that they attend her immediately in the Senate Chamber.''
The House of Commons being come,
The Speaker of the House of Commons addressed the Honourable the Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General as follows:
"May it Please Your Honour:
The Commons of Canada have voted supplies required to enable the Government to defray certain expenses of the public service.
In the name of the Commons, I present to Your Honour the following Bills:
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2003 (Bill C-29, Chapter 3, 2003)
An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2004 (Bill C-30, Chapter 4, 2003)
To which Bills I humbly request Your Honour's Assent.''
After one of the Clerks at the Table read the titles of the Bills—
To these Bill the Royal Assent was pronounced by the Acting Clerk of the Senate in the following words:
"In Her Majesty's name, the Honourable the Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General thanks her loyal subjects, accepts their benevolence and assents to these Bills.''
5:14 p.m.
The Commons withdrew.
After which the Honourable the Deputy of Her Excellency the Governor General was pleased to retire.
Other
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator LeBreton calling the attention of the Senate to the legacy of waste during the Martin-Chrétien years.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., for the Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 17 (inquiry), 4 (motion), 2, 14 (inquiries), 76, 66 (motions), 16, 6, 11, 7, 3 (inquiries), 7 (motion) and 8 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., calling the attention of the Senate to Canadian foreign policy on the Middle East.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Roche, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
__________________________________________________________
With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, April 1, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Reports on Plans and Priorities, 2003-2004 Estimates:
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency
Canada Customs and Revenue Agency
Canada Economic Development Agency for Quebec Regions
Communications Canada
Canada Industrial Relations Board
Canadian Artists and Producers Professional Relations Tribunal
Canadian Centre for Management Development
Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety
Canadian Environment Assessment Agency
Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Canadian Forces Grievances Board
Canadian Grain Commission
Canadian Heritage
Canadian Human Rights Commission
Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
Canadian Intergovernmental Conference Secretariat
Canadian International Development Agency
Canadian International Trade Tribunal
Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission
Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Canadian Space Agency
Canadian Transportation Agency
Citizenship and Immigration Canada
Civil Aviation Tribunal of Canada
Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Competition Tribunal
Copyright Board of Canada
Correctional Service Canada
Department of Finance Canada
Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Department of Justice Canada
Environment Canada
Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission Canada
Health Canada
Human Resources Development Canada
Immigration and Refugee Board
Indian and Northern Affairs Canada and Canadian Polar Commission
Industry Canada
Infrastructure Canada
Law Commission of Canada
Military Police Complaints Commission
NAFTA Secretariat, Canadian Section
National Archives of Canada
National Battlefields Commission
National Defence
National Energy Board
National Film Board
National Library of Canada
National Parole Board
National Research Council Canada
National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
Natural Resources Canada
Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada
Northern Pipeline Agency Canada
Office of the Chief Electoral Officer
Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial Affairs
Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Office of the Correctional Investigator
Office of Indian Residential Schools Resolution of Canada
Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada
Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners
Parks Canada
Patented Medicine Prices Review Board Canada
Privy Council Office
Public Service Commission of Canada
Public Service Staff Relations Board
Public Works and Government Services Canada
Registry of the Federal Court of Canada
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
RCMP — External Review Committee
Security Intelligence Review Committee
Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada
Solicitor General Canada
Statistics Canada
Status of Women Canada
Supreme Court of Canada
Tax Court of Canada
Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Transport Canada
Treasury Board of Canada, Secretariat
Veterans Affairs Canada
Western Economic Diversification Canada—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-318.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 5:59 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.)
__________________________________________________________
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Mahovlich substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fraser (March 26).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Oliver substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Meighen (March 26).
The names of the Honourable Senators Bolduc and Hubley substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Angus and Biron (March 27).